Excelling After a Spinal Cord Injury

Join Brendan Aylward in a conversation with Jesi Stracham about finding purpose, accountability, and overcoming a victim mentality after her spinal cord injury.

Episode One: Key Takeaways

• Communication is essential in understanding and finding compassion for the lived experiences of an individual with a disability. Instead of assuming what another person needs, take the initiative to ask and begin a conversation about what can be done to make any social or physical space more accessible for that individual.

• The inspiration derived from individuals with disabilities should be used to motivate other populations to better themselves, not to mitigate expectations for individuals with disabilities

• The sooner that we are able to accept responsibility for our own actions and assess the ways that we can change our habits moving forward, the sooner that we are able to grow from our lived experiences

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Episode One Transcript

Brendan (0:00)

Okay, welcome to the AdaptX podcast where we have discussions with individuals who are building accessible businesses or products advocating for inclusion or excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities, but rather our goal is to amplify your voice, ideas, and learn strategies to scale our impact and help other businesses become more inclusive.

On today's episode, we are joined by Jesi Stracham, who among many things is a business owner, content creator, and athlete.Her work has motivated people of all abilities, but especially wheelchair users, to be more active and healthy. Jesi, thank you for joining us today.

Jesi (0:32)

Thank you so much for having me and sharing your platform with me.

(0:35)

You're the founder of the Wheel With Me Foundation and the owner of Wheel With Me Fitness. Can you tell our audience a bit about the mission of each?

(0:43)

Absolutely. The Wheel With Me Fitness and Wheel With Me Foundation both serve the independence of wheelchair users. For Wheel With Me Foundation, we host quarterly empowerment weeks, where it's completely free for wheelchair users to attend. They are going to learn a skill or trade from another wheelchair user, so whatever they specialize in, we've had everything from interior design, how to build a resume, how to become an actor, how to be an advocate, sex and disability. We literally talked about everything under the sun. Those are every quarter completely free hosted on Zoom.

We have Wheel With Me Fitness, which offers an app and a private Facebook group, where we have two group calls a week for mental mindset and development.

I think that's the biggest thing that holds anyone back is their mindset, and so we really want to support that side of things as well.

(1:30)

Building a community seems to be relevant in all industries, but obviously, especially in yours, how did you go about starting it? Did you already have a platform beforehand, and then you're able to leverage that to find people or any specific marketing endeavors?

(1:46)

When I first got paralyzed, I was racing off-road, and I got a deal with Polaris to race a series called GNCC, for factory Polaris, which was really cool. I had a single seat side by side, hand controls in it, completely custom, and I was racing one and two months of being paralyzed.

I was able to go back to what I did before and integrate back into a normal life, but I realized so many people weren't able to do that, and they weren't even living. They were staying at home, not able to transfer, not able to take care of themselves, and we've got to teach people how to be independent.

You have to be able to take risks when it comes to transferring, when it comes to trying new things, to be able to grow and be independent, especially as a wheelchair user or a person with a disability.

The more uncomfortable we get, the more we're able to grow, and I think that was the biggest thing that I wanted to get out there. I constantly fell on the floor, my first two years of being injured, so I posted a video of me having a meltdown on YouTube, and it got like 50,000 views in the first month, and I was like, oh, shit, people are listening to what I have to say. I should probably say things a little better and be more positive and put a light out in the world. That's what really reframed my mind to create this platform.

In 2018, I decided to go content create and actually pursue it, and I went from 5,000 followers to now my current day, 107,000 on Instagram, which is completely organic, sharing my mission, sharing my journey, and trying to inspire people to use their obstacles to live life to the fullest like I have.

(3:21)

Which came first, the fitness platform or the foundation?

(3:25)

The foundation. The fitness platform started as a private Facebook group in 2017. I have a friend who's also a wheelchair user that started the Yelp of Accessibility. It's called iAccessLife, and it's a downloadable app where you rate and review places based on their accessibility.

I was like, oh, you created an app. How can I create a fitness app?

He was like, you'll never be able to do it. It's impossible. It's so hard. I was like, well, shit, I guess I can create a Facebook group.

I created a Facebook group, and that's really what we started as. I never did anything with it until the pandemic when I was led down this path of nutrition coaching, which led me to getting certified and now doing it full time.

(4:03)

Yeah, I was going to say, obviously, many brick and mortar facilities were heavily impacted by the pandemic, but the remote stuff took off. Was the pandemic in some ways a blessing from a business standpoint?

(4:16)

It was a blessing overall from a human standpoint. I hit my lowest as a human being during the pandemic, and it allowed me to pivot. I gave my life to God. I'm like, I don't know my purposes. I don't know why I'm here, but I just need your support. I need guidance. I need help.

And he was like, bet, I've been waiting for this, and my life has just immensely taken off since that. And it took me getting so low that I had no other choice but to ask for the higher power for help. I think that's really important for people to understand. We think we're in this world alone, and we're really not.

I was an atheist before I was paralyzed.

So I've been that person that didn't believe in anything, and I understand why I struggled so much before my injury.

Because I wasn't guided. I had no purpose. I had no bigger reason for being here. So my paralysis really was a blessing as a whole because it gave me so much more than it took away, even on days when I struggled like today.

I don't put my leg braces on, got frustrated, started crying, but I still did it. And before, if I got concentrated in life, I would quit. And now I don't quit. And I think that's the most powerful thing this struggle has given me. I mean, there's good days and bad days, but it's the same for able-bodied individuals as well. There's still bad days in that regard.

(5:34)

So I wonder if how do you help people, I guess, see the positive of an accident? How do you guys approach that subject with people?

(5:46)

We build relationships and friendships. And it's very interesting. Just recently I finished a 12-week course where it was just five of us together, and I was helping these five women that use wheelchairs lose weight. And the biggest pivotal switch they had was their mindset. And it was really cool because one individual in particular, she, at week six, she went to her parents' house. And she's only been injured for a year.

And she went to her parents' house, couldn't get in the bathroom, got really frustrated with the lack of accessibility, and felt defeated. And she fell off for like three days. Well then by week eight, nine, she fell in the shower, called for her husband, got back up, finished her shower, went and took her kids to the pool, continued to show up. It was really cool to see how fitness and nutrition changed her whole entire mindset and confidence about her capabilities and how she had to handle lack of accessibility. And so that's really, that's what I want to give people is independence.

It's not about losing weight. It's about getting strong enough to be as independent for as long as possible. Because this is a lifetime sentence. I was injured at 22. I'm planning to live to at least 80 as long as I'm able to, you know? And so like, I want to be able to transfer myself at 80. I want to be able to still cath myself. I want to still be able to manage my spasms. I want to still be able to stand to relieve pain. Like there's so many aspects that go into the day to day life for a wheelchair user or a person with a disability that you never thought about when you were non-disabled. And so it's like not letting that control the outcome of where you go, the trajectory of your life as a whole.

(7:23)

Are there any unique aspects from like a nutritional standpoint that you found to be successful with wheelchair users that maybe those who don't use wheelchairs, it's not as relevant for? Or other specific aspects of nutrition?

(7:38)

I think the biggest fib that I was told when I was an inpatient was that I needed to eat between 800 and 1200 calories because my body wasn't functioning properly. And that was inaccurate.

So by five years into being injured, my shoulders completely deteriorated. I wasn't able to transfer. I wasn't able to get dressed. I was getting cortisone shots every three weeks. I couldn't lift more than 10 pounds. And I had been doing CrossFit for three years by this point. And so I started tracking my nutrition, realized I was only eating 30 to 60 grams of protein a day.

And holy crap, I'm deteriorating my entire body.

And so how many wheelchair users are getting shoulder surgery or having shoulder issues and it could be fixed from a nutritional standpoint? And it's like, I was told just about calories and I needed to stay under 1200. Now I eat 1700 to 2000 calories a day. I eat the same as a non-disabled person. And I think that mindset and realizing that just because you're disabled doesn't mean your body doesn't need the same fuel and nutrition, that needs to be pivoted.

And the importance of protein just for our shoulder health and omega-3s.

There's so many small aspects that go into nutrition that aren't talked about enough with wheelchair users that could significantly reduce the amount of medication they're on and improve their overall quality of life.

(8:53)

Yeah, the literature on wheelchair users and shoulder health and shoulder injury is a grim outlook, but I don't think it has to be. I think sometimes, like you said, the nutrition doesn't support it properly. The fitness doesn't support it properly.

So where people kind of view it as some unique population that's different than the able-bodied, it's not. Maybe you're not quite as active over the course of a day, just in terms of how many active calories you burn, but you still have to support your muscle mass and your physical activity and the amount of energy you expend to propel your wheelchair, etc.

So that's a great mission. Is there anyone else that's doing nutrition specifically with adaptive populations, or do you think it even needs to be differentiated?

(9:41)

So I do and I don't. There's certain things that another wheelchair user could coach you on that a non-disabled person doesn't even think about. And you know that from having conversations with non-disabled people, and they're like, oh, I would never would have thought of that.

It's like, yeah, it's part of my everyday life. And so from that aspect, I think it's important.

There's two other people. So there's an actual nutritionist. She goes by the paralysis nutritionist on Instagram. Latima, really incredible woman. She did a Wheel With me empowerment. She's doing great. She's more on the expensive end. And then you have myself and Nikki Walsh. Nikki Walsh, Adapt Fit. She's also a wheelchair user. And her and I are both doing the nutrition coaching.

We use the same platform and we do a lot of things together as well.

And so like, you have options, right? Like if you want a full nutritionist to give you a full meal plan, you have that option. You want somebody to hold you accountable and guide you and give you suggestions. You have that option. And it just depends on what personalities are going to go together.

I don’t sugarcoat anything. I'll hurt your feelings. I'll make you cry. And it's not intentional.

It's just like the reason you're in this situation you're in is because everyone's been coddling you and I'm not going to do that.

(10:49)

Yeah, the accountability piece ends up being as important, if not more important from a nutrition standpoint for really any population.

(10:58)

Anything, right? Like the accountability for everything is so important.

If you're not taking keeping track of the movement that you get, like one of my workouts, at least one to two workouts a week are PT related. So I'm doing i’s, y's and t's, which are like the worst shoulder exercise ever. Boring is heck, but I have to do it if I want my shoulders to stay healthy and strengthen those small muscles. And it's like, we have to do the things that we don't want to do to get to where we want to go. And once you understand that it reframes your whole entire perspective of the hard things.

They're no longer hard. It's like, no, this is the thing I need to do.

(11:36)

Yeah, that's awesome. From a vernacular standpoint and like a terminology, I see a lot of, a lot of differing opinions in terms of whether people like to be considered disabled or neurotypical and all these various terms. And when we teach our course to other fitness professionals, I teach a class on how to like train people with disabilities, physical and intellectual. And that's one of the things that seems like people seem to get hung up on. Like they don't want to offend anyone and they're not sure how to have those conversations. How do you approach that? Obviously, it's a case by case basis, but what are the terminologies you prefer versus don't like to see?

(12:19)

I would just ask the person, I mean, like, hey, is this what, this is the word I would use, is it right? Is it wrong? Why? To gain that understanding. And if you approach it and you ask the question first, you have less chance of offending later. Personally, I don't get offended over words. We are the people that give words power and somebody's ignorance about what to call you because they don't know because they don't live that life every day because they're not you. Us getting upset over that is really, it's just a waste of everybody's time.

So I don't get hung up on words. I think if one is cringy to me, it would be wheelchair bound because it makes me think of bondage. And I'm like, I'm not bonded to my wheelchair. Like I do get out of it. I do a lot of floorwork. I get leg braces. Like this isn't attached to me. And I think that's like the biggest one. Again, people don't know what they don't know. So for me to get upset over that, it's a waste of my energy and my positive vibes.

(13:13)

Yeah. We see like person first language was kind of always perpetuated as like the proper thing to do. But then in circles of people with disabilities, I started to hear like, oh no, I like being called autistic and I like being called this. And so when you kind of take that away, it takes away a portion of their identity. Like you said, we usually say the more transparent you can be upfront with someone and just the relationship you can build with them. That's the best way to figure out how much assistance they want. Like with transfers, with getting equipment at the gym, with like helping them with exercises.

You don't necessarily need to assume that they want that help. You can ask them what they want help with in the same way that you can ask them what language they want to use. I think that's all pretty relevant.

Not that content creation and business are kind of mutually exclusive, but what has been the role from like a content creation standpoint versus a growing the app? What have you found to be successful? Is it consistency? Is it specific pieces of content? Different platforms?

(14:19)

Honestly, it's who I connect with and who I get the information in. Word of mouth has been our best friend. Recently, we have people that just love the app and they rave and rave, they'll tag it and that's very helpful. I reached out to news sources. We were on the Today Show in DMA3 and that really helped getting that national attention. But we're offered globally. We have users in Germany, Australia, and the Netherlands, which is really cool too because it's translated in all those languages.

Really I think it's just a matter of it being around.

We're only a year old and you know in the first like five years of business that you make no progress and then all of a sudden it takes off. So I think it's going to take a little bit more time for us to get known and just keep sharing the platform and getting more people in. I think the thing that makes Wheel With Me unique is it's a wheel with me. We want a wheel together as a community.

So it's not the Jessi Stracham app. You're not going to just see my face in there. We have different wheelchair users. We get the local community in, program workouts and we're cool with them doing it. Let them lead a workout.

So you get to see different faces, you're not just with the same style. So if you like this person more, cool. You have more classes to join with that.

(15:32)

Yeah, where do you see it kind of progressing to? Or I guess maybe you can start initially with like kind of what the structure is. Is it live? Is it on demand?

(15:42)

It's all pre-recorded. So you go into the app and there's different categories. There's strength, resistance bands, workouts in bed.

That was something that we really wanted to focus on for the people that wait for caregivers. So there's resistance band, body weight and strength training workouts from bed. So that way if you're waiting for a caregiver, get moving in bed. Utilize that time. Don't scroll social media. Do something to better yourself. And that's really what will make life rewarding for you. That's what's going to build your confidence as a human being is just focusing on becoming 1% better every single day.

You don't have to be in this current state where you are for the rest of your life if you were willing to take the action to get yourself out of there. And the biggest issue with society as a whole is this victim mentality of like, poor me. I can't do it. I can never. It's your lack of commitment to yourself and to the change that you're trying to make. That's all it is. It's not that you can't. It's that you're choosing not to. And the sooner that we accept responsibility for our actions or lack of, the sooner that we're able to attack it, change it, and correct the course to get to where we want to be.

(16:49)

You think anyone's not receptive to that message? It wouldn't be exclusive to wheelchair users only.

(16:58)

There's a lot of people that aren't receptive to that message.

(17:00)

But like when you're first starting with someone like post accident, do you notice a trend towards that initially frustrates them and then they get to a certain point or?

(17:10)

Honestly, it just depends on the person. I get criticized a lot by like older disabled people and that's fine. I just, I lived that victim mentality. I was that person. I'm like, you should do this for me because I'm a wheelchair user. Well, because I'm a wheelchair user, my life is harder because I'm a wheelchair user this. And it was like, when I led with that, and I use that victimness of what happened to me to kind of get my way, I didn't get my way. Where I'm like, you know what, I just want to help other people get to live life the way I have.

And I want you to be able to drive across the country by yourself in eight weeks and go travel and visit other wheelchair users and have a community and meet people. Like I want people to get to experience this life the way I did because it was so rewarding and just continues to be rewarding. And I want people to get to experience that and realize that, hey, your life's not over because this happened to you.

And the sooner that we give people that kind of hope, I think the sooner that they're able to attack. But there are some people like I've, I'm went to like a hospital and there are some people that I knock on the door and I'm like, peer mentor and they're like, no, and just shut you down. But there are some people that are willing to listen to what you say because I have th proof. I have the social proof on my social media. I have the proof in the community that I've helped like, I've lived life to the fullest. This injury has done a lot of things for me and it's been that mentality of like, you know what, I'm not a victim because of this like time is going to keep passing. Life is going to keep passing and I have two options. I can be miserable in my current existence. I can make the best of it and figure it out and try and find what's going to make me happy and continue to make me happy.

(18:43)

How do you feel when people say that you're inspirational or like what's, what's your opinion on the inspiration narrative? Cause a lot of times we'll see someone with a disability performing like a rudimentary task and you get all these people on social media. They're like, oh, that's so inspiring. Like that's so motivating. And it kind of mitigates and like belittles the population and it kind of perpetuates this narrative of like, you should praise people with disabilities every time they do something. So like, where do you kind of fall on the idea that you’re an inspiration? Like are you comfortable when people say you're inspirational or there's certain environments where you're not comfortable with that?

(19:21)

I'm my biggest inspiration for sure. I make the choice every day to swing my legs out of bed regardless of how much pain I'm in. If I piss myself, I figure it out, I move on and I move on with my day. If I'm struggling to get my leg braces on and I'm cussing and I'm crying and I'm just over it, I still finish, right? But that shit's inspiring. When I want to quit, I'm inspired by me and I'm inspired by what I could be, where I could be if I just keep showing up. And because it's hard, getting in the car is hard, pumping gas is hard, doing laundry is hard. Like the smallest tasks take so much extra effort. So yeah, I'm pretty inspiring because I didn't quit because even though I'm faced with so much challenge in life, I still show up and that's inspiring. So yeah, yeah, I'm pumping my gas. I'm glad to inspire you.

Now you go out and do something with that. That's the thing. Don't call me an inspiration if you're not going to do something with it. You need to keep that inspiration in your own life and say, hey, I was inspired by this girl doing this and still showing up, I'm going to go show up.

(20:36)

Yeah, that's the right narrative. And that's what I, with all of our marketing materials and stuff that we put out, we always try to demonstrate what people with disabilities are capable of doing when they're in the right environments and they have the right support. I think that's an awesome narrative to put forth.

So I'm always interested in kind of how different businesses like grow and different revenue streams and monetization strategies. Where do you envision the app going? And you've done a good job of selling on your websites with different affiliate links and various collaborations that you guys do. But kind of like what trajectory do you see the mobile app in your businesses as a whole going in?

(21:02)

So my big focus is rehab facilities. I want to help newly injured the more, because people that have been injured five plus years, they're in their ways, they're living their life, they're happy as a clam. Rarely do they come, come to you, right? Whereas newly injured, if we give them that support from the beginning, they'll realize what they're capable from the beginning.

Over 50% of the spinal cord injury population relies on government assistance for their independence. Within 40 years of injury, only 30% of the population is working. So that means that 70% of the population is relying solely on government, in the government assistance for independence. That means you're relying on that government check, which is living in poverty.

Last year, I went back to work full time. So I've been working 40 hours a week for the past year until I broke my spinal fusion back in May and running the app and running the nonprofit. And I'm a full time paraplegic. I don't have function in my legs. And I still did the damn thing because I managed my time properly because I was committed to the process. And getting off government assistance and no longer receiving that social security check has been the most freeing thing I could have done.

There's a gentleman, his name is Josh. He also has a spinal cord injury cervical level. He is an attorney and he helps people with disabilities completely free to get off government assistance, helps you navigate social security because it gets really sticky in the process. And now I have no limits on what I can earn. Now I'm no longer worried of like, am I going to go over the threshold? Am I going to lose my benefits? For the first time in seven years, I have Medicaid, state insurance, because I went back to work and I can pay for it now. And like I just pay for Medicaid every month and I have state insurance. I have better insurance working full time than I ever did running on assistance. And I think we get so comfortable in this place because we think we need it that we limit what we're actually capable of doing. And so just empowering this community to be like, hey, I can actually push myself a little harder and do things.

Did I enjoy going to work every day? Absolutely not. But I did it and I was able to become independent. I've saved enough money to where I'm looking at houses. I almost have my car paid off. I paid over 10 grand off my car last year just because I made the choice to manage my time better, make myself better, and do something to help catapult my business and me as a human and my confidence in myself. And the more that we show up for ourselves and put ourselves in those uncomfortable positions, the more confident we become in our capabilities as humans, the less we identify by our disability and the more we identify by how damn powerful we are.

(23:40)

That's a great message. You think it's more of an individual mindset thing or are there also barriers from an employment Standpoint and accessibility standpoint? How did you find the career that you're in now?

(23:59)

So I applied to 10 places and I only got two interviews and I got hired at the second place I interviewed. And I'm an orthodontic assistant. So I'm the person that changes the colors and wires on braces. And the second place was willing. I'm like, look, I haven't done this in seven years. I haven't done this from a wheelchair. But if you're willing to take a risk on me, I'm willing to try. And so they were willing to try. They did the working interview. I executed it. And I did something that I didn't think I was capable of doing. The whole reason I didn't go back to work is because I didn't think I would be able to assist from the chair. And I ended up being the clinic lead and managing the whole entire clinic and my staff from my wheelchair.

And I think that we truly just, if we have open conversations, like, well, what do you need accessibility wise? And if like the bathroom situation, I left all my bathroom supplies, a change of clothes, everything in the bathroom. So that way, if anything did happen at work and I won't lie in the last year, I probably I did shit myself like three or four times at work. Like I'd be working on a patient and I'm like halfway through the adjustment, my stomach would make the rumblies and I'm like, oh no, no, no. And then like it would happen. I finished my patient, no one would know. I'd go to the bathroom, handle my stuff. It'd take me about 20 minutes is what I got it down to. And then I'd come back out and I'd go back and go back to work. And being able to set yourself up for success for when disability happens and when that struggle happens and having your employer understand that these things could happen and having the honest, clear conversation with them and being like, look, this isn't going to stop my work ethic.

This isn't going to deter my work at all, but these are things that could come up. It's not normal, but it could happen with my disability. I just want to give you a heads up, make sure you're aware just in case like I'm in the bathroom along client, then you understand why. And having that clear, honest, again, honest conversation, right? Like just putting your needs out there, what you want, and then being willing to fix it on the fly and figure it out on the fly. Like there's a lot of things in the office that I can't reach. And so I'd have, I'd assign specific people to do those jobs where I couldn't do it. So I had somebody in sterilization. I had somebody who would design and doing that, being able to delegate and realize that like, hey, you might not be able to do it all, but you're still valuable to this place.

(26:19)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's the same way in the, in the gym setting. So how will we make our more environments more accessible? Just being transparent, having our clients communicate what they need help with, what they don't need help with. And when we were, we moved to a new facility last year and when we're designing where to hang things and making sure that they're at a height where someone in a wheelchair could grab it. And I think there's so many like small things that gyms overlook. Have you found anything specific in terms of accessibility barriers within gyms that you've tried to use?

(26:53)

I will say, I've been a member of the YMCA since gosh, for like seven years now. And anytime I'm like, Hey, this is a piece of adaptive equipment would be great here. Like the extenders for the Ski Erg or a lap mat or something like that. And I'd let the Y know, I'm like, this would be great for us to have as wheelchair users at your facility. And within a week, they would purchase whatever I needed. And they had it for me or if I'm like, could you move this equipment so I could use it? And they'd move it and it would stay that way. And I think that's really cool that you find this place that's overly accommodating that they're just like, what do you need? I've got you. And again, it's us willing to open our mouth. I think too often we assume people know our needs, but how can anyone know our needs when they're not living our life? Because life from down here is way different from life from up there. And so we have to be able to articulate what we need and have honest, open communication with people. And sometimes people won't be receptive. Sometimes people don't give a shit and karma will handle them. You can't let somebody else's opinion of you or opinion of your situation control the way that you move in the world and how often you open your mouth. Just because one person isn't receptive to what you say, have that ability to be like, did I say it in a good way? Was I rude? Because I know there's been plenty of times where someone's asked me if I needed something and I've been rude back and then that person's avoided me ever since. And so you have to check in with yourself and make sure that you're approaching the situation properly as well so people are receptive to what you need.

(28:21)

Yeah, the lessons on accountability that you've shared here, they extend beyond all populations in different industries and different environments. So it's a great lesson kind of in terms of how to approach it for people of all abilities. But loved the conversation, looking forward to following the progression of Wheel with Me Fit. If you have any specific links you want us to share, we can put them in the show notes. Is there anything that you want to share with the audience before we wrap up? Any key takeaways? The goal of our company and our nonprofit as a whole is to help make the fitness industry more accessible. But like we shared and we talked about today, these things go beyond fitness as well.

But what do you think could be a step towards making fitness and gyms as a whole more accessible?

(29:10)

I think it's people's willingness to have conversations. Don't just assume you know what we need. You don't. Ask. Ask different members of the community too. Don't just ask one person because one individual's needs might be different from someone else's. And just be willing to approach it with an open mind.

Realize that fitness is one of the most important things for all humans, regardless of your ability or your size or whatever. Like you need to get your body moving just for longevity. And don't be so worried about what other people think about you. Their opinion of you doesn't matter. They're not living in your life. They're not living your day. Don't be embarrassed by your diapers. Don't be embarrassed by your catheters. Don't be embarrassed by your medical supplies or your wheelchair. There's no point because you can't do anything to get rid of those things, right? They're part of your life. And the more that you embrace every aspect of your life, even the parts that aren't pretty and that you don't like, the more confidence you have to go out and maneuver an inaccessible world and articulate what you need to change that because change starts with you. If you want to see change, you have to be the change.

(30:18)

Excellent way to wrap it up. Jesi, thanks for sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with us and your experience with us. I'm sure it will go a long way and hopefully we're able to direct some people your way that could greatly benefit from the services you provide. I really appreciate your time today. Thanks for joining us.

(30:34)

I really appreciate you guys having me. Thank you.