The Future of Haptic Technology in User Experience and Accessibility with Enzo Caruso
Listen to Episode 34 with Enzo Caruso here or watch the video below
Brendan Aylward (00:00)
Welcome to the AdaptX Podcast where we have conversations with individuals who are building accessible products, advocating for inclusion, or excelling in adaptive sports. Our intention is never to speak on behalf of those with disabilities but give them a platform to amplify their voice and share insights so you can help us make the world more accessible. Today we are joined by Enzo Caruso. Enzo is a multifaceted investor, operator, and entrepreneur, driven by a passion for delivering tangible solutions to improve the world. Currently at the helm of operations and partnerships at Haptic.
Enzo is committed to reshaping information reception through the revolutionary capabilities of haptic feedback. In a departure from the reliance on audio and visual cues, Enzo envisions a future where the power of touch and vibrations liberate individuals from their electronic devices, fostering a more inclusive and futuristic world for all. With an unwavering dedication to innovation, Enzo and his team are poised to redefine the way we interact and receive information. Enzo, thank you for joining me today.
Enzo Caruso (00:51)
Absolutely, Brendan. Really excited.
Brendan Aylward (00:53)
For those who might be unfamiliar with the technology, can you maybe explain to the audience what haptic technology is?
Enzo Caruso (01:00)
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean haptic technology has been around forever, but it's definitely a very kind of new and profound technology That's just kind of starting to get incorporated to the masses So haptic is anything relating to the sense of touch think when you get a phone call or text message and the vibration through your mobile Device that is a form of haptic feedback if you're driving in your car and you stray out of your lane and the Wheel kind of vibrates to orient you back onto position as a form of haptic feedback in our lives except we kind of have a dispersion between being able to connect the H word with the actual outputs for what it actually does. So yeah.
Brendan Aylward (01:40)
So how did, when did this become, I guess, a technology that was heavily used by individuals with visual impairments? Was there a time when it wasn't? And then was there a transition period to someone discovering that, oh, like, wow, we should be incorporating this with guiding?
Enzo Caruso (01:56)
Well, absolutely. I mean, There's been a lot of haptic, tactile feedback methods that have been incorporated within accessibility and inclusion measures worldwide. You know, crosswalks, those little stepping stones on the bottom that give that tactile ground feedback. That was kind of the first introduction to haptics, especially within subway stations, to let people know, hey, you're approaching the track, kind of step back. So it's always been utilized for orientation, but actually now utilizing it within deep technology.
Different adoption curve and something that I like to say at Haptic, we are the pioneers of actually incorporating this type of technology into our own application, but also existing applications worldwide. So that Haptics and vibrations, you know, touch is a universal language. It doesn't matter where you are in the world. Everyone can understand feedback through actual touch. And that's why we think that kind of breaking down the digital divide and this barrier between what can and can't be utilized with touch, you know, really incorporating that into as much as possible.
Brendan Aylward (02:59)
So haptics is a broad term that doesn't strictly encompass digital technology. It's basically just a sensation of touch. But now you're finding ways to incorporate that into the digital landscape. Yeah. OK.
Enzo Caruso (03:12)
Exactly. Yeah, that was the true company inception was when a close colleague of ours became blind in a traumatic car accident. And his biggest point of feedback was, hey, digital applications, specifically navigation, they've relied solely upon audio and visual-based feedback. And the fact that now I am diagnosed as blind, low vision, the fact that I can't have my eyes and ears glued to my device, and I am now on the outside of this, like we say, this digital divide, so that I can't go walk and get Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts utilizing Google Maps and Apple Maps, applications that's worldly used by billions of people. This was like a present problem that could be solved. And that kind of, that solving mechanism in Q was a universal language that everyone can comprehend and understand. And that's when kind of haptics came to the forefront of this could be the solution.
Brendan Aylward (04:05)
The first product that you guys released was the Waybands to begin to address that correct?
Enzo Caruso (04:11)
Exactly, yeah, that was kind of the state of the art application that we built. It was back in 2016, 2017. First, we had to start with the actual patent behind the technology, because we knew we were early to things. It was kind of essential to step back and say, OK, what can we actually get intellectual property on so that we can protect ourselves so that when this kind of tidal wave of adoption comes, we have our technology and it's protected. So we were able to get a very robust patent and it was anything that vibrates to orient a user on their position or location. Very broad, but we were, again, early to the party, so we were able to get it.
And as well, back in early 2016, 2017, when we were actually thinking about, OK, how do we get this to the masses, the Apple Watch and Google Pixel watches, they either didn't have a haptic motor or didn't exist. So we had to come to the table with our own product, Wayband. And that was specifically focusing on delivering vibrations all through a wearable product. And that connected to our native application, Haptic Nav, which is the product that's still running right now. We discontinued the Wayband only due to hardware line and we could have more kind of user adoption and growth if we tapped into everyone's iPhone or Google Pixel whatever Android with an application so we focused all of our research and development then onto that and now are tapping into third-party wearables with iOS watch and Google Pixel watch.
Brendan Aylward (05:41)
So you guys are now licensing software to companies like Apple and Google?
Enzo Caruso (05:48)
Well, that's absolutely the goal. The pipeline is to step back and take the intellectual property, like I mentioned earlier, and to say, hey, Google Maps, Apple Maps, Uber, you guys have hundreds of millions to billions of users on your application, yet you rely still upon legacy forms of feedback, audio and visual based. Even if you take the blind and low vision out of the equation, that's a massive kind of safety issue, in my opinion. And users lack awareness, overall safety, and overall inclusion if you are solely relying upon individuals getting feedback with their phone up at their face or hearing, hey, your Uber has arrived. Go down, take a right in 100 feet, whatever that is. So utilizing vibrations and haptics, that's kind of the way to breach that fold and add a new layer of intuitive technology that everyone can benefit from.
And by everyone, I mean literally billions of people utilizing technology. Um, that in, and it just doesn't exist currently. So haptic, we have to be the pioneer to get this out there.
Brendan Aylward (06:51)
That's one thing we've talked about in a few episodes here is how accessibility design or universal design might be intended for one individual or one population but really benefits the whole. So are there are there people outside of the community of those with visual impairments that would use this technology?
Enzo Caruso (07:11)
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think about the fact that closed captions and subtitles, their initial target market and intent was to allow deaf users to interact with movies and television. And now the statistic is that 80% of Netflix users utilize closed captions when they watch television and movies. And 80% of Netflix users are not deaf. So how, you know, that initial foot into the door, and then once that domino falls, the market for which, you know, the tide pool, it opens up and kind of everyone can utilize it.
I utilize all the time with haptics. Yes, obviously the low hanging fruit is the blind and visually impaired. We made history. We put it on a marathon runner. Simon Weecroft, we were able to allow him to finish the entirety of the New York City marathon without a guide or sighted assistance, all through the utilization of haptics. And now, me, I just moved to Manhattan two years ago, no idea how the grid system worked. And I needed haptics to get around, because it was not safe, literally, if I was walking around a brand new city to myself, I have no idea what I'm doing. My phone's in my hands, eyes and ears glued to it. That's not safe in terms of pickpocketers. That's not safe in terms of incoming traffic. But then the utilization of haptics, like we say, free your eyes, free your ears, feel your way. And that's for the first time ever, I can be more aware of my surroundings. I didn't have to be glued to your device. And that's something that everyone can adopt to, not just the market of, again, blind or low vision individuals. It's something that everyone can utilize.
Brendan Aylward (08:40)
I was technically first out of conversation because of the marathon sort of topic. One of the challenges that maybe a runner with a visual impairment might face and using something like tactics exclusively for diving.
Enzo Caruso (09:00)
I think you might have to repeat that partner. I think your mic kind of cut out there.
very staticky.
Brendan Aylward (09:46.8)
Is that better?
Enzo Caruso (09:49.574)
No, not really at all. I wonder what's going on. It was totally good and now you're like bait for Batman.
I had to do a full unplug, replug, I don't know. Yeah. Unfortunately.
I know you're the one that has like the professional mic too. Oh man. That's good. We can have a blooper section at the end.
Brendan Aylward (11:06)
Is that any better?
Enzo Caruso (11:07)
Well yeah, there you are. Wonderful.
Brendan Aylward (11:10)
Weird. Okay, yeah, like I said, we'll just mesh it. It'll flow seamlessly, but yeah. Also like, yeah, this is just for show. It doesn't actually do anything. Nah, just kidding. All right, so we first met a couple, maybe about a year ago to talk about navigation for athletes, runners who have visual impairments. What are the main challenges that they may face exclusively using haptics in a race like the New York City Marathon?
Enzo Caruso (11:13)
Yeah, you got the professional editor, I'm not worried.
Yeah, I mean, look, it's the first technology of its kind. So for the first time ever, they can actually have the independence to not need a guide or a tether. And I think that's the one thing that we can promote that's like, hey, that's revolutionary. That's going to break your normal tradition and routine. You really kind of have that independence and awareness. Now, obviously, without a guide or a tether, there's other complications that come into place in terms of proximity. Hey, there's someone five feet in front of you. So those type of issues are something that if you're specifically utilizing haptics without a form of computer vision radar detector, you know, our application doesn't tell you, hey, you have an obstacle coming in five feet. That'd be a totally different development curve. So what we can guarantee is the fact that all through vibrations on your wrist, you're gonna be able to intake intuitive information all through haptics. So great, you're running on your path. You kinda, we have two different settings, either no vibration when you're going the right way or our haptic heartbeat impulse, which is my favorite setting, kind of everyone's kind of favorite setting. It's almost like, think Pac-Man. You're going along your trail in the right direction. It's da-dun, da-dun.
You're collecting kind of these dots and beads, and it's kind of a gamified version navigation. You want to continue on that track. You stray off for any reason, utilizing your body, actually turning on an axis. And we deliver vibrations to get you back on the track. So that's kind of like the groundworks of our haptics. That's our patent, utilizing vibrations to orient the user. But again, obviously, there's other hiccups that will arise when you're utilizing this as a runner and whatnot.
On object detection, what's in front of you. If you're running through a busy central park, that's obviously great haptics is going to help you and guide you through your journey. But it might not tell you when that baby stroller is coming. Or hey, that crosswalk, it's red, don't cross, versus you're available to. So there's definitely a few other things in the adoption curve that we're hoping other technologies and building off of Apple Maps and Google Maps, them integrating this into their systems. We're a haptic company, so we want back to the users, but it takes a village in terms of really making the end-to-end experience accessible and hopefully Haptics is going to be an integral part of that. But it can't be the entirety of it. It could be an additional layer, but in terms of really creating again the end-to-end experience, it's going to take a larger team and vision and an overall mission.
Brendan Aylward (14:11)
Yeah, you would need like almost a self-driving technology that like something like a Tesla has to identify all obstructions.
Enzo Caruso (14:18)
Yeah, LIDAR, computer vision. Yeah, so that's something for which, you know, if you wanted to do that, you'd have to have your kind of phone out on your chest, utilizing the back camera to do spatial recognition. And I don't think really that's too intuitive nor accessible, having a phone strapped to your chest. So there's ways, obviously, you know, I think with the adoption of augmented virtual reality, the vision pros and whatnot, sure, this can help us for sure.
But again, it's going to take a unified effort to really make this experience seamless as possible.
Brendan Aylward (14:49)
You guys recently rebranded from WearWorks to Haptics. What was the thought process behind that?
Enzo Caruso (14:58)
You know, a few different reasonings. One, I think it's pretty cool to be named the technology for which you embody and are trying to pioneer. So, hey, what do you do? Oh, I work at Haptic. We're trying to make the world more accessible and inclusive all through the utilization of touch. It's like, great, whoa, your technology is your name. And WearWorks definitely was more, you know aligned with our hardware kind of mission, you think where works, and kind of our mission and five-year plan at the company was, okay, we don't want to neglect our past, we did incredible things utilizing hardware, but with this B2B focus now, kind of really wanting a mass user adoption, the best way is software. So that's us going to companies saying, hey, here's our SDK, here's our patent, here's our intellectual property behind our actual feedback, adopt it into your application, make your application more accessible, inclusive futuristic and that's what we want to embody. So it's kind of not out with the old in with the new, but a refurbished and rebrand that's going to really align us for a robust future.
Brendan Aylward (16:03)
Yeah, I was wondering if the having the technology as the name presented any legal challenges, like whether there's any copyright sort of thing associated with that. That was just one thing that came to mind when you told me.
Enzo Caruso (16:17)
Yeah, well, it's...
Absolutely. Well, it's definitely a risk because you look up haptic and we're not going to be the first thing that comes up on Google. You're going to get about a hundred different definitions. So in terms of viewership and actually channeling people to our website, yeah, that's a massive risk we had to take. But because we were able to get the trademark under actual assistive and accessible technology, that's how we were able to navigate around. Hey, you can't really trademark a technology and a word like such. But because we were able to say, OK, if it's specifically utilized under the umbrella of inclusive and accessible tech and intuitive technology, great. Okay, that's more of a gray area for which you guys for now can utilize and control. So yeah, I mean, that's for the patent and the trademark lawyers to figure out. But once we got the thumbs up, it was like, all right, if you say so, great.
Brendan Aylward (17:09)
What motivated you to get involved with Haptic or maybe how did you initially get started with the company?
Enzo Caruso (17:15)
Yeah, so it was actually back in 2019, my partner and I went to New York City as we were operating our early stage venture fund, a Condu Capital. And there we came across a trade show and a private event with the WearWorks team, specifically Kevin Yu and Keith Kirkland. Kind of took the technology into our hands, said, wow, this can piece together the vision of this, not necessarily the business model of becoming a truly accessible company hardware, but saying, hey, stepping back and really understanding the overall adoption curve, if you were to be able to get this into Uber, finding all your cars, utilizing haptic vibration, getting Google Maps and Apple Maps to adopt this haptic future and vision, there was potential there. So we were one of the first institutional checks within the company. And after two years, working very closely with Keith and Kevin, obviously from the investing side of things, it was kind of my choice to step back and want the under-the-hood operational startups provide, having the ability to hire, fire, scale, grow, learn, market, that's totally a different hat than wearing the investor cap. So stepping back, really wanting to improve my own personal ability to give something back to the world. I think my own motto is, you know, each and every day, all we do is take, take. And if there is a technology that I can put, you know, my 24 hours of focus each day on giving something back to the world that might significantly make a difference, that inspired me. And so I surveyed kind of the portfolio companies and I knew that, you know, WearWorks and now Haptic was gonna be the one that, you know, I was never gonna lack drive to wake up in the morning to try to produce and put my best foot forward because it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun thinking to yourself, you're hearing feedback from people saying this is revolutionary, this is going to change my life, this has changed my life, that's something that you know you really don't take for granted when you know the good and bad come in for sure.
Brendan Aylward (19:16)
Yeah, absolutely. How maybe from the investing side, how do you determine what type of company you want to invest in?
Enzo Caruso (19:24)
Yeah, I mean, I think from my positioning, being younger than not on the investor side of things, it really had to be moral alignment with the startup and founders as a whole. Kind of, hey, are you guys really committed and dedicated towards doing everything it takes to get a very early stage company off the ground and creating a behemoth for which everyone is now utilizing haptics or fill in the blank tech. So it definitely had to come down to.
Investing in the individual that's what that's a lot of what early stage investing comes down to but then also being able to chart out Okay, where you guys are right now, that's great. But where could this company go in five years in terms of your potential product roadmap? Where does that align to kind of your investment thesis? Is there a large trajectory for which you know you hit that hockey stick and grow or is it? Hey, this is something that you have a lot of competition within and your you know competition is good at some points, but industry that the competition actually isn't too great because you want to be building something that no one's done before and that's when you kind of get that zero-to-one approach rather than building something that's one of N you get a bunch of those you know delivery applications you know this is something that again haptic we are pioneering something brand new and that made the investment thesis pretty easy.
Brendan Aylward (20:41)
Where do you think the company goes in five years kind of continuing off of that trajectory type of conversation?
Enzo Caruso (20:45)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, it's really going to be software centric. It's going to be tapping into companies with large user bases. I've mentioned a few earlier, kind of Uber, Lyft, ride sharing companies that are going to be massive, navigation applications that are already in place, Apple Maps, Google Maps, Good Maps. These are kind of applications that range through the entirety of them, a majority of the world. And with that being said, these users are relying way too heavily off of legacy forms of feedback visual based and that's something for which I have a thesis and pitch that can you know, better their product for each one of them. It's kind of saying, hey, Uber or Lyft or another ride sharing company, DD, whatever it is, you guys, an airport, a car's coming to pick you up. Rather than looking at the same seven digit, you know, license plate, the great Toyota coming up, you know, there's a bunch of these different cars, kind of a high stress, busy environment. The last thing you need is trying to read, is that the same license plate versus, hey, now I'm utilizing vibration straight from my ride sharing application that is guiding me directly to the back door of the driver's car. That's something that is, totally breaking the realm of what is currently in place. And in terms of accessibility and inclusion measures, that's incredible. But that's also something that we talked about before. Everyone can benefit from the fact that haptics can more quickly and more efficiently and safely get you to your vehicle. And that's something for which we can pitch that to the ride sharing companies to say, hey, great, you guys are getting thumbs up for your accessibility and awareness approach, but also, hey, maybe people are finding their cars 15 seconds faster.
15 seconds faster on a comparison of 10 million rides a day, X million per month, billions per year. Imagine the kind of the frequency for which they can improve their own product in churn because things are happening more quickly and their press is better, our balance sheet is better, and we're really democratizing the haptic language. So it's kind of an all-encompassing pitch and approach, but our goal is really to step back and put our money where our mouth is and say, hey, our goal here is to deliver haptics possible and we want to make the world more accessible and inclusive for everybody. And with that being said, whoever is kind of aware and ready to adopt technology like us, we're ready to go in terms of delivering our kit and that's what's most essential. So you know we started with the navigation apps, you know adopted into now ride sharing apps and who knows what comes from there. I don't know if that's the metaverse, I don't know if that's you know navigating stadiums. For the first time ever you can tap into your SeatGeek app or whatever and section 2, row 3, seat 17. That could be really cool, right? So getting kind of smart and intuitive locations now mapped out, we're gonna be able to tap into kind of everything that embodies the realm of, you know, honestly the future. So that's cool.
Brendan Aylward (23:34)
How do you come up with all those different use cases? Like the stadium one you just mentioned, like that's always a huge pain whenever you try to go find your seat at a sports game. But that's not even something that would ever have crossed my mind, at least initially.
Enzo Caruso (23:47)
Yeah, partner, when you have a bunch of, you know conversations and we've done something with Verizon and they're doing kind of a 5G approach and they wanna do smart stadiums and we've already had an early stage investment from them. So that's exciting, obviously they have us in their back pocket to say, hey, great, we wanna map out X stadium for fill in the blank Olympics and we wanna utilize Haptics as that new kind of digital acquisition to do something new, promote the future. It's like, okay, great, we're here. But also, again, if all your time is focused this technology, these ideas just kind of flow. And there's never an end to them, but it's also making sure that, you know.
As an early stage startup, you're not attracted by too many of the shiny things. You had to have a real product mission and focus and execute on that vision. So there might be a lot of shiny things going past you. Oh, ride sharing, stadiums, navigation, but really making sure that's like, Hey, the most essential thing of this business is to get haptics into the most amount of hands as possible. And that's through a B2B licensing curve. So who's going to get us there faster? Who's really going to get haptics into the most amount of hands? That's the trajectory we have to follow.
Brendan Aylward (24:56)
What are the biggest barriers to adoption from various tech companies and do you guys have a certain level of protection that would prevent them from developing a competing software?
Enzo Caruso (25:09)
Yeah, for what we found thus far, our intellectual property or a patent is incredibly robust and strong. So yes, of course, tech companies, they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to create their own sort of haptic solution, whether that's a ride-sharing company or whether that's Google and Apple incorporating haptics into their navigation apps. But what we found thus far is that what we have done and succeeded on thus far is incredibly difficult. And that gives us kind of a great footing to say, hey, months and years into developing it and then potentially even start infringing on our patent.
You guys have the treasure chest to actually utilize third party technology companies. And that's, you know, kind of backing them into the corner to get attracted to our tech and development is big. So, you know, I think our biggest roadblock and barrier currently is just the fact that haptics are utilized by many to everyone daily. But there's just not enough connection between, oh, my phone just vibrated. My mom's calling me versus that's haptic feedback. So that's why we need to be the pioneer. That's a big marketing effort. That's, you know, distribution channels and of haptics to say, hey, that vibration, that form of touch feedback, that is haptics, that's what we're doing. Imagine flipping that on its head to think about a more kind of intuitive and aligned future, utilizing haptics and whatever that may be, whether that's haptic healthcare, haptic alerts, haptic navigation, kind of, you know, there's the pipeline there, it's just about allowing users to understand that they can think about touch in a new way that they haven't before. So that's probably the biggest, you know, difficulty is just getting people to understand that this technology exists and could technically be pretty impactful.
Brendan Aylward (26:52)
Yeah, going towards challenging is always good, because not as many people in the space. The harder a problem gets to solve, the more the unique solution becomes. So let's see, what do we want to touch upon? So the different software, what is kind of the primary one that a user could adopt right now? So if someone was listening to this and they had a visual impairment, where would you direct them to?
Enzo Caruso (27:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, just head right to your app store, Google Play Store, and download Haptic Nav. That's our in-house real tech distribution channel right now that, hey, you want to, for the first time ever, really feel haptics specifically within navigation. Again, free your eyes, free your ears, feel your way. Haptic Nav is the first on the market, and we're definitely pioneering it. So give that a check. The only way to really understand haptics is to have that light bulb go off for you put in a location, you put your phone down by your side, kind of do a 360 degree spin and you let yourself kind of feel the way say, whoa, there's that heartbeat, that pulse that Enzo was talking about, that's the way I should go. And kind of, you know, you feel it and you're like, why doesn't this exist everywhere else? And you're like, well, you know, that's why we're here. That's what we're trying to do. So yeah, I urge people to download Haptic Nav and let that light bulb go off for yourself because I can only do so much talking before you guys actually feel it, your own self. And you kind of say, oh, I get what he's talking about now.
Brendan Aylward (28:22)
Is there any resistance from maybe just like the community of those with visual impairments to adopting something like this as opposed to utilizing their more outdated, it's too strong of a word because it's not necessarily outdated, but a white cane, et cetera, to navigate?
Enzo Caruso (28:40)
You know, the one thing I've been incredibly kind of impressed with is that specifically the blind and low vision community, they're very kind of on top of and desiring new technologies and products. They're never going to say no to giving a test. They're like, hey, you guys are putting your best foot forward and actually like working towards empowering our community for which a lot of people are not respecting slash leaving out again on the outside of this digital divide. And you guys are giving your efforts for us. Like hell yeah, absolutely. We want to try. So I've been tapping into, you know, AFB, NFB, you know, the American and national federation for the blind, uh, the lighthouse guilds, which is a great, uh, partner.
Ours, Lighthouse Guild of Manhattan, Central Florida, and now we're tying in Miami as well. These have 25,000 plus members each and we're tapping into, hey, you have the audience, we have the technology. We're not asking much from you guys other than, hey, we've built this tech for you. Give it a try, give us your feedback, be our target partners, give us a thumbs up, give us a thumbs down. We need as much refinement as possible because we are doing this for you. That's our target market to start.
And then, like I said, with closed captions, you get that domino to fall. That's a different story. Now it's for everyone. But the communities that are out there now, like I said, with some of the organizations I mentioned, they're more or less very receptive, because I think they respect the fact that, hey, you guys are giving a damn about us. And that's important.
Brendan Aylward (30:08)
Yeah, absolutely. I remember a year or two ago, I met with a company and the problem that I presented to them was helping individuals who are blind navigate gyms. And their solution was kind of like a beacon that maps out the facility, but the issue with that is that sometimes a medicine ball gets placed in a different location or sometimes the sled's in a slightly different location on the turf. Can you envision a way that haptics could help someone who's blind navigate a gym?
Enzo Caruso (30:36)
Absolutely, I mean haptics are our one of our bigger visions is incorporating it within indoor navigation, but that's something that the world's biggest companies haven't been able to solve yet, because that's a consistent refinement and a very kind of heavily incorporated hardware kind of need. Obviously, if you're putting a beacon and you're gonna do computer vision or LIDAR for the entire space and, oh no, someone moved the weight bench over and now they didn't calculate that 24 hours ago, so now all the calculations and drawings are now messed up.
They're focusing on indoor navigation. But we stay consistent on the fact that that's not our mission. Our mission is making sure that our haptics are the best on the market. And hopefully again, like I said earlier, it takes a village, you know, indoor navigation companies come, they solve it. They solve those issues of, you know, constantly re-updating and reorienting their spatial recognition, getting those updates continuously day by day to, you know, account for the sled being moved, medicine ball here, et cetera. And then that's something for which, mapped out, haptics are ready to be integrated into that system.
Brendan Aylward (31:52)
Yeah, it's definitely something where... for things that don't change, bathroom, countertop, toilet, et cetera, I see like it could have pretty good utility, but there's a lot of indoor places where the landscape's just slightly changing enough that it would make it tough to map out. It seems like some combination of Tesla versus Roomba versus like those different technologies that try to navigate spaces. Be a cool problem to work on.
Enzo Caruso (32:19)
Yeah, all the above. It is, it is. It's a difficult one now that hasn't really been solved yet, but hey, we're ready and able to assist them with a new barrier of technology once that is adopted and created.
Brendan Aylward (32:33)
Yeah. Maybe we kind of are touched upon this, but maybe to wrap some things up here, like what are you most excited for over the next year or two of Haptic?
Enzo Caruso (32:44)
Yeah, I mean, we're doing a bunch of different showcases, events, kind of distribution channels. We're gonna be live at South by Southwest, one of the country's biggest tech conferences in Austin. We're hosting a panel with executives at Uber, the ex-chief business officer of Waymo on the future of transportation and mobility. That's gonna be the bunch of signups for attendance already, so that's gonna be something for which we can say, hey, you guys haven't thought about Haptics, but now think about it, and think about it in terms of, great, with Uber. Think about finding your car all through vibrations. Think about, you know, Waymo and other kind of autonomous vehicles companies, you know, even Tesla. Finding your car via that way and then mapping out events and venues such as South by Southwest or Coachella. Kind of, you know, hey there's so there's 50,000 people here, eight stages, you're trying to find a friend. It's kind of difficult for eyes and ears. You can share your location on Haptic Nav and now get, you know, all your vibrations to find where your friend is, you know, half a mile 10,000. So there's, you know, our adoption curve is hitting and it's hitting strong. The rebrand kind of came at a great time to really embody what we're doing. But, you know, the next 12 months it's going to be great because we're going to get our first kind of B2B software licensing efforts. You know, we're going to get those first check marked. You know, really start getting this revenue in the door to continue our refinement development of our haptics. And, you know, we're going to see a true adoption curve, not only on our haptic nav application of the year, but we're also going to be having tens of millions to potentially hundreds of millions of people utilizing it within ride sharing companies, finding their cars, alleviating those stress and pressures at a very busy airport with all the same cars and seven digit license plates. So we really do think that our time is now and that Haptics will be kind of at the forefront of a new and intuitive future.
Brendan Aylward (34:37)
Well, and I love talking to people that are passionate about the work that they're doing. And obviously the mission of making the world more accessible is perfectly aligned with what this podcast is. It's hopefully showcasing. So appreciate you joining me today. We'll include the website in the show notes. Is there anything else you would like us to kind of plug in there?
Enzo Caruso (34:57)
Yeah, I'll just make it easier for people. Get the Haptic Nav link, specifically iOS. And then if people have it on Android, just search it up in the Play Store. But yeah, I mean, I guess I can only implore people to, if we really want to make this future a reality, have an open perspective. Think about things in a manner that you haven't before. Everyone is so consistent on, I've only received information through my eyes and ears glued to my phone. But if you step back and think to yourself, only way that might be the legacy way for which we were initially kind of got up into the door but now you know people are thinking creatively people are thinking on their feet people want to make you know kind of a cooler and I keep saying a more futuristic world we're trying to embody that and so you got you got to feel it yourself you got feel your way and I promise that light bulb will go off like it does for you know thousands of tens of thousands of people that we've already impacted.